Sexist Stereotypes in Blue Mars

[kaseido]

This setup makes me very wary of where Blue Mars is going with avatar presentation. The narrow range of options, severely segregated by gender, coupled with the distant camera angles, all serve to dissassociate me from the avatar rather than create a connection. This is a toon character, not a representation of myself. This gamer approach to adopting player character doesn't hold a lot of interest for me; I'm much more intrigued by immersive environments that make me feel a part of the scene.

Watching some shorty-short clad bimbo wander around a waterfall landscape or sit on a beach sipping a mai tai is boring. Taking a walk through a waterfall and lolling on the beach has more the feel of going on vacation. If Blue Mars is about gaming, and only gaming, then point me toward a place I can watch this avatar die cause she's really annoying.

That's it! That's the synthesis of an explanation for the features that's been eluding me. The avatars are engineered to feel like a "player character," not a personal avatar. Each one of the features adds to the breaking of immersion.

And this isn't a matter of limited customization options: WoW gets good immersion going with much less. Even a few options that are *convincing* can create a good sense of immersion. Basic avatar-following camera movements do a lot, too.

While BM's handwaving away each instance of weird sexism - that one's an inventory bug (still not fixed, btw - my female av still has only short-shorts and miniskirt options), that one's just a "cute" way of testing bots - and the lack of African-descended hair - just continues to suggest that BM is an engineers' playground, not a place for a diverse and engaged customer base.

All these *details* are easily fixed in a beta - but the underlying corporate culture is much harder to change. Dale has asked for a greater dev presence on the forums: c'mon, team, step up and show us that you're as focused on delivering a quality customer experience as you are on the tech goodies.

And, a game to gun down the miniskirted clone army? Sign me up!

[mszv]

Great comments, great observations. Beebo Brink, I like the way you discussed the issue. Kaseido - great posts.

From my perspective, it seems to me that the initial content creators made some poor choices on what to include, and, more specifically, what not to include in the beta. Yes, when Blue Mars comes out, developers can make any sort of content that want, but for the beta, it would be great if the initial developers would have been encouraged to come up with more choices.

I play MMORPGs (not always all that well, I might add) and you see this sort of thing all the time - the clothing for female avatars is often so skimpy. I realize this is part of popular culture, but really, does it always have to be like that - a few more choices in the beta - could have thought of that. The game industry can be really, really slow to change, in my opinion.

On identifying with my characters - I do, sort of. I like to create a character that resonates with me, so there is some identification going on. Now I realize it's not me - when I play MMORPGs 'm not a magician in "real life", and I can't heal with a spell. Bu I like the character to be appealing to me, since we'll be together for awhile. So - me and not me at the same time. Avatar creation is important to me.

[Markadian]

How about we lay off the initial choices issue and remember that no matter what was added, someone will complain about it, and focus on the content we add.

Second Life *could* have added incredible default animations and good looking default avatars, but, 6 years later, they still have yet to.

[Skelito]

How about we lay off the initial choices issue and remember that no matter what was added, someone will complain about it, and focus on the content we add.

Second Life *could* have added incredible default animations and good looking default avatars, but, 6 years later, they still have yet to.

Just give each avatar male and female stuff and let them pick. 1 default inventory for all! Right now seems to me there are bigger fish to fry here at this time.

[Markadian]

Unfortunately that can't happen because the of the way the skeletons are built. Unlike Sl, male and female skeletons are different (due to the default height difference).

[DaleInnis]

How about we lay off the initial choices issue and remember that no matter what was added, someone will complain about it, and focus on the content we add.

Are you under the impression that you are talking only to developers? I assume AR wants our feedback on the Beta as it is, and our recommendations about what to change, or they wouldn't have put it out as a Beta. If you don't like the "complaining", feel free not to read it.

Unfortunately that can't happen because the of the way the skeletons are built. Unlike Sl, male and female skeletons are different (due to the default height difference).

So the platform makes it impossible to make one piece of clothing that can be worn by either males or females? That's gonna be a pain for clothing makers.

[Markadian]

Yes they will, due to the way female and male shapes are different, and since in BM clothing is actual geometry it will be unique meshes for males and females each, just like standard video games.

As for the beta comment, I'm pretty sure that Linden Lab got a million and 2 comments during beta about how terrible the default avatars are, and yet they're still the default.

[Sorina Garrigus]

Part of that comment was referring to some of the other posts but given the fact you can't customize your body at all makes me think that is still a work in progress that or you have to get alternate avatars elsewhere. I doubt its a case of BM dictiating you have to look like a barbie doll. The tools are not yet available to completely customize your AV other than tweaks on the face. They aren't dictating a choice they are just trying to get the machine rolling. The biggest issue is they went to open beta a bit too early so there are quite a few things lacking at the momment. I wanted to customize my avatar to my tastes also but I hope and sure there will be options as things progress

I possibly could be technical limitations just guessing though. We cant change the body shapes either maybe clothes are geared towards the shape of the bodies? I just think its waaaaaaaaaaaaay to early to cry sexisim when its barely been a week in open beta.

You've addressed this comment to me apparently, but I'm not the one who has called this decision "sexist," although I'm inclined to agree with Ryan that it is that. I'm less concerned with labeling the politics of the situation than I am critiquing the way in which the technical UI is limiting choices. I have no quibble with people creating clothes and animations for men, women, furries, robots, what have you. There are differences, and I'm not denying they are pertitent to creating categories.

What I object to is that I can only peruse the categories that BM dictates are appropriate for me to see. Why are they making that choice for me? Sure, provide a default category that is the most likely to interest me as a user, but don't assume that guess is correct for everyone.

[shava23]

I understand about early betas. I alpha tested There. But this is sort of almost open beta, and you'd expect as much content for customization as, say, Google Lively.

I mean excuse me? We get to be white, thin, young, and half naked. Pull out some standard meshes from some open source libraries. This is not rocket science.

IRL, I am pale in complexion (born a redhead), but my culture is central Asian. Even in SL, my avatar usually wears long skirts. In RL, you would almost never see my knees or see me without a cap, bandana, something on my head. I am not oppressed by culture -- it's how I'm comfortable with my self image (those of you who know me from SL know I'm not a prude, particularly!).

The idea that I have no choice as a woman to come into this world but dressed in a bikini or short-shorts is pretty offensive.

The problem here is bad first impressions. Did I come here to be sexually provocative? No. I came here as a professional. I am a VW content developer and an entrepreneur, a geek consultant and nonprofit technologist/grantwriter, and occasionally work in politics. Would I ever dress like this in any real or virtual world situation? No, nothing like it. Not even on the beach.

What it says to me is that the dev team never considered professionalism, culture, ethnicity, or modesty (at *least* for women) in their design and purposing. And it leaves me with a bitter taste in the back of my mouth, as a professional and a woman.

Can it be fixed? Yes. Should it be fixed? Well, assuming this isn't an R- to X-rated 3D chat client for dating only, I think it would be a good idea to fix it yesterday.

So, lets see if there is anything more to this environment than fun in the sun.

It makes me feel a lot better about Linden Lab. At least in SL I came into world to work on social action with nonprofits, and didn't even learn about all the sex/drugs/rock&roll for my first year-ish there (I have been in SL almost 4 years now). I was immediately allowed to be dusky skinned, and dress modestly, and look like a woman of a certain age. I was allowed to cover my knees. I was comfortable in my virtual skin, and I also felt like I could present myself as a professional to people I met.

The implications about the lack of foresight in the devs is disturbing. How many women who come into this environment can identify with their avatars?

yrs,
Shava

[Sorina Garrigus]

Hello its still in beta its clearly a work in progress. I doubt BM has any intention to force people to only pick from 4 barbie dolls. Also there are content creators making skins and clothes as we speak. I talked to one in the log in zone. Its not sexism its not racism its not girly girlism or any other ism. If anything its a workinprogressstillinbetawithalotmorefeaturestofixadetcism. All the features are still a work in progress. There will be other choices I was even told from a rep a furry one was in the works. There is no logic in anyway shape or form to only have a small handful of avatars and absolutely nothing else in a world that will have commerce and a diverse amount of full fledge sim based games. I am sure and I hear the are working bigger issues like movement and camera issues. Hopefully some custom body shapes. You have to remember SL only had 2 default noob shapes for years and both of them were caucasion and thats it. Maybe when its the got the bigger problems resolved and more features in play they can go back and address things like a couple more clothing and animation options. People think everything is live. Its still in beta and by all rights should be alpha. This is just a test. Oi.

That's it! That's the synthesis of an explanation for the features that's been eluding me. The avatars are engineered to feel like a "player character," not a personal avatar. Each one of the features adds to the breaking of immersion.

While BM's handwaving away each instance of weird sexism - that one's an inventory bug (still not fixed, btw - my female av still has only short-shorts and miniskirt options), that one's just a "cute" way of testing bots - and the lack of African-descended hair - just continues to suggest that BM is an engineers' playground, not a place for a diverse and engaged customer base.

All these *details* are easily fixed in a beta - but the underlying corporate culture is much harder to change. Dale has asked for a greater dev presence on the forums: c'mon, team, step up and show us that you're as focused on delivering a quality customer experience as you are on the tech goodies.

And, a game to gun down the miniskirted clone army? Sign me up!